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Tories pull out of Senedd Covid probe over oaths

Elliw Gwawr
Political correspondent, BBC Wales News
Getty Images A bilingual Covid-19 sign in a high street encouraging two metre social distancing during the pandemic. A pedestrian wearing a face mask can be seen beside the sign. The pedestrianised street is shiny and wet from rain.Getty Images

The Welsh Conservatives have resigned from the Senedd's Covid committee after Labour refused to support their calls for witnesses to give evidence under oath.

The Covid-19 Inquiry Special Purpose Committee was set up to find gaps in the UK Covid inquiry that need to be examined in more detail in Wales.

Tom Giffard, who has now resigned as committee co-chair, said: "Labour's decision to block oaths being taken undermines any chance of getting to the truth."

Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice Jane Hutt said that their calls for the witnesses to take an oath were "concerning" and witnesses may feel compelled to seek legal advice.

No other Conservatives will take their place, and the committee's Plaid Cymru member Mabon ap Gwynfor told BBC Wales he could not see how the committee can continue without any Tories on it.

The UK Covid inquiry is a judge-led inquiry which takes evidence under oath.

It is not a requirement for Senedd committees, although it is a power available under certain circumstances.

Giffard said: "Without the safeguard of requiring witnesses to speak under oath, this committee has become a pointless talking shop."

He added that he refused "to be part of a process that fails to give the public the answers they deserve".

Conservative member for North Wales, Sam Rowlands, has also resigned from the committee.

He said: "For this committee to be taken seriously, and for justice to be served, it must have the powers that it needs and give confidence to the public that it is doing its job properly."

The Conservatives forced a symbolic vote on the matter in the Senedd on Wednesday.

Despite the support of Plaid Cymru the Labour government defeated the opposition - 23 votes for, 24 against, with Welsh Liberal Democrat Jane Dodds not taking part.

Senedd Cymru Tom Giffard speaking in the Senedd, wearing a black suit, white shirt and light green tie.Senedd Cymru
Tom Giffard had been a co-chair of the Covid committee

The Welsh government raised concerns that introducing oaths would make people more reluctant to give evidence.

Representing the government, Jane Hutt said ministers had demonstrated a "clear commitment to the process of inquiry and to learning lessons from the Covid-19 pandemic" but had a number of concerns about the use of an oath.

The minister said it would give the impression that the committee "does not believe that it will receive truthful evidence without it".

She also said that "those invited may become more reluctant to attend, feel compelled to take legal advice before attending, or indeed, curtail their answers to facts only".

Plaid Cymru, like the Conservatives, had wanted a Wales-only public inquiry - calls which have been rejected by Labour for some time.

Plaid's Ap Gwynfor said that "without accurate factual evidence, then it is impossible to learn the right lessons, and more importantly, there is a risk of learning the wrong lessons and putting the lives of future generations at risk".

"We must therefore get to the truth. That is why I am so firm in insisting that witnesses must swear an oath, in order to ensure that we stick to our moral agreement."

Speaking to BBC Wales after the debate, Ap Gwynfor said that, because it was meant to have been a cross-party committee, "I don't know how the committee can continue without the Conservatives".